Finance Working Group

[matthew]

I believe that this will become necessary pretty soon, so we ought to propose it at the next meeting of the GA.

[roylemons]

i suggest we start a wepay account as soon as possible.

[deebee]

I can't remember where, but I saw a suggestion that every satellite occupation start up a way to accept BitCoin donations.

Found a blog entry talking about it: nwn.blogs.com/nwn/2011/10/bitcoin-donations-for-occupy-wall-street-feed-the-protest.html

[matthew]

I will be interested in contributing to the activities of this group, but I'm already spread pretty thin. Does anybody want to take the lead on preparing a mission statement, list of specific objectives and steps for moving forward? This is what I think ought to accompany a proposal to the GA to formally approve the WG...

[denmarkvesey]

i spoke to social justice center we can work through them I would like to be on this group

[rana]

i think we should have a way to accept $ donations online ASAP. no idea how to do that.

[dylan]

I am not sure why we have to go through a 501(c)3, especially if we are going to have to give the umbrella organization 10%. That might end up being a lot of money. I think there needs to be a little bigger membership of the working group before significant descisions like this are made.

I think we should be checking out wepay and avoid the 501(c)3 & 10% idea AND deal with Rana's question about getting online donations.

Website:
www.wepay.com/

Cheesy promotional wepay video:
vimeo.com/29974762

Here is the occupy albany wepay account which we can use if we choose to do so. Please provide feedback about message (what is occupy albany / where does money go) and default donation (it's like a suggested donation.)
www.wepay.com/xdvii1

[matthew]

I think this is an important group to have functional a.s.a.p. I really think we ought to have some information for the next meeting of the GA, and some well thought-out proposals. Can we do some homework on this, share our findings / thoughts in this thread, and perhaps meet someday this week?

[dylan]

Can people meet Wednesday night at 9 at the Hill St. after the albany votes event? Or Thursday night.

[denmarkvesey]

i have my son on wed i can be flexible thurs

[matthew]

I'm available aft 8 or so Thursday night.

[dylan]

Meeting tonight at 8:30 at the Hill St. Cafe, 180 Madison Ave. for anyone who'd like to join us.

[dylan]

Couple of facts about wepay:

Q:How much does it cost?
A:It's free to sign up for WePay. You pay a small transaction fee for each payment you receive. No contracts, set up fees, or monthly fees.
It's free to sign up for WePay. You pay a small, 3.5% transaction fee (50¢ minimum) for each payment you receive. There are no contracts, set up fees, or monthly fees.

Q:I was sent money, how do I get it to my bank account?
A:Once you link a bank account, you can withdraw the funds directly to it.

Q:Who owns the money in an Account?
A:The Administrator of the Account
WePay makes it easy to track finances and share information, but the Administrator owns the money in the Account.

Q:Is my money safe?
A:Yes
At all times, your money is held by our FDIC-insured partner bank.

[matthew]

can an organization be the administrator of an account?

[msspang]

I'm not sure if this board is still active as there are no posts in 4 days, but here goes. The biggest challenge with not going through a 501(c)3 for accepting donations is that those donations are taxable income to whoever receives them -- the name of the person on the bank/WePay account. I don't know all the details, but I'm sure that federal anti-money-laundering rules make it impossible to set up any kind of bank account without an individual's name on it (supported by picture ID in the case of a bank account).

Full disclosure, I do most of the accounting and bookkeeping for the Social Justice Center as a consultant. I'm not advocating that donations do or do not route through SJC.

[denmarkvesey]

agreed with msspang if people oppose this they should set up it in their name so the IRS goes after them....anyway I think we agreed at GA to do it we should members of SJC in my opinion for $25 a month

[chrisz]

I'm not sure how to link messages, sooooo... I'll copy/paste:) from 'Fundraising' in general discussion.

Hmmm... personally I'm a little torn on the monetary issue... quite a few issues/questions come up regarding funds... transparency, distribution of funds, funding sources, organizational structuring... these are a few examples.

I personally lean away from moneterization... I'd prefer non monetary donations if at all possible. Keeps things more on a grass roots level... more heartfelt... For example I'd rather wear a grandma knitted sweater donated than a sweater purchased from an operational fund. In essence they share the same purpose, keeping you warm, but their differences are immense.

Since I posted that, I have thought on this a great deal more... I've been watching OWS, a few days ago, it looks like they've raised 435,000 and growing quickly, one problem that has been splintering their group is how the money is spent. One thought I had was who is paid for their services and how the vetting process had worked... for example, they have a paid accountant... could they not find one to donate time, or was that a legal prerequisite for operations? This in itself could cause some angst, if one professional service was donated, and another service is paid. Everything in a movement can theoretically be a paid position... I think a strong goods vs. services position should be established in the beginning.

Finance in itself is a huge undertaking. I'm unsure of the legal structuring, but it sounds like there is a possibility of the movement becoming an organization... a legal entity... I'm not sure of all the legal issues that can arise from becoming an organization... there could be plusses and minuses... I think they should be fully examined. In addition, there could be conflicts of interest that arise in the future that would need to be addressed.

And then there's always the question of what happens to the money when we are successful?

So all in all, Finance is useful, but I think it should be hammered out to a fine point, preferably earlier as opposed to later.

[elizabethgrot]

i think keeping to real money is best

i dont think this movement is a game

and we are involved with an international economy and not yet ready or willing to devolve from that identity for practical and futurist reasons

i would like to see the money invested in some educational technology. projectors screens and micropohones for powerpoint (gotta love the name uggh) presentations.

let's challenge our abilities and grow.

[chrisz]

Money is a tool... if we get goods/services, we have no need for money.

Life is but a game... It is how you play it. I personally are quite involved in the Occupy movement.

There are things that make me wonder like:
blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/84938/the-economics-of-occupy-albany/
Was there any vote on that issue?

Forgive me for not being a part of that particular GA, but I have not read of anything pertaining to Finance but in the above article in regards to Occupy Albany.

This leads me in to wondering who from the Social Justice Center or affiliated or membership organization members: The Albany Political Support Committee, The NYS Prisoner Justice Network, Citizens Environmental Coalition, CWA 1104, Food Not Bombs, Homeless Action Network, In Our Own Voices, The Labor-Religion Coalition, Lambda Family Circle, Peace Action, Save The Pinebush, The Solidaritee Committtee, GMOCA, or the MAMI Interpreters voted on Finance? They are all members or affiliates of the SJC... which I personally think is awesome, but they should not have weighted or vested interests in Occupy Albany. Heck... just a representation of executive boards could theoretically represent all of Occupy Albany by the numbers defeating any block.

And when it comes down to goods or capital, where does the remainder lay? If we purchase lasting goods, where does it go, to which organization, to which political action group, to which person?

I feel that these are important questions, and if not asked during the heat of the moment, they are still questions to be answered.

[matthew]

That article was a bit [mis]leading. We *are* partners with the SJC insomuch as they are our "fiscal"sponsor, but if the encampment dwindles they do NOT get to keep the money.
The sponsorship was discussed at 2 GAs, and a representative of the SJC was at the 2nd of those to answer questions about the organization. The proposal sailed through.