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Post by koffeefrkeleven on Oct 22, 2011 19:00:17 GMT -5
I was unable to address my concern at tonight's GA, my son got tired and I had to go home. I will plan to be at GA tomorrow, if I can't I will bring it to the attention of people that will be.
Last night, (Saturday Morning) we had some visitors. The park we are occupying lies roughly between Albany's N. Pearl St entertainment district and Lark Street (another destination) and the campuses are all uptown from there. We are bound to get some very drunk and obnoxious foot traffic around the park. When these guys made their appearance, I just kept a watchful eye. And some others that were awake helped convince them to leave finally.
I wouldn't suggest that we confront these people directly, since I don't want anyone being injured or assaulted, but it's a pretty dangerous situation, there wasn't a cop to be found.
2 things we can do: last night my video camera's battery was dead. I'm pretty sure if they had been told to leave, or that I was going to record their activities, they would have simply left.
Second, I think we should take responsibility for our own security, and agree to some kind of voluntary night sentry, in shifts, some kind of agreement along those lines.
Keeping the positive energy of this occupation moving, the last thing we need is for anyone to be injured or attacked.
I apologize if this was brought up as an issue in today's GA. Just in case it was missed I want to make sure the concern went to the right people.
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Post by hl2 on Oct 22, 2011 19:13:45 GMT -5
I think this is a great concern. I wasn't at ga today so I dunno if it was but It definitely ought to be.
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Arie
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Post by Arie on Oct 22, 2011 19:26:01 GMT -5
Is there a possibility that we could get a security WG together? Perhaps have teams of two take over night shifts with a camera? (Most digital cameras offer a video feature).
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benbrucato
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Post by benbrucato on Oct 22, 2011 20:51:06 GMT -5
Second, I think we should take responsibility for our own security, and agree to some kind of voluntary night sentry, in shifts, some kind of agreement along those lines. Yes. Let's take care of ourselves. There has been talk by Lauren (Nami) and Eddie about security. I think most people know who they are. This is very important. I'm going to try to stay the night on Tuesday or Wednesday and will help out that night. This is something that should be resolved each night to ensure shifts are covered. Cheers, Ben
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Emma
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Post by Emma on Oct 22, 2011 21:21:24 GMT -5
There was also the issue that came up at the GA yesterday with the guy unwilling to wait his turn or step down and wanting to force us off the Vietnam Veterans Memorial pedestal. He actually came back today and starting hanging around the memorial around the time the GA was goign to start, which is why we moved to the other location.
Someone did propose a sort of security/self-defense WG at some point and I think it's a great idea. I do think it's very important that it be done WELL both for safety and in terms of expressing our values through our actions (not asking others to leave public land when we're trying to not be asked to leave public land, not making an us-them thing, etc). We discussed this in facilitation & logistics today and agreed that it was outside of our purview but that we'd like to see it taken on by people who know what they're doing with it. I'm not sure how we find them, but maybe we just start asking around.
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kanelucian
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Post by kanelucian on Oct 23, 2011 3:57:41 GMT -5
wow Koffeefrkeleven, you must be clairvoyant!!! We should seriously consider this proposal for a WG
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rachael
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Post by rachael on Oct 23, 2011 8:02:45 GMT -5
What happened last night around 11:15 was a perfect example...2 drunk guys started a fight with a protestor. We must be proactive so that people do not allow themselves to be provoked and so that anyone nearby encourages non-violent responses..if you are not familiar with what happened last night there is some footage on the facebook page.
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benbrucato
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Post by benbrucato on Oct 23, 2011 9:13:32 GMT -5
If all of us or a delegated security WG aren't prepared to diffuse a situation by providing aid to our fellow occupiers by stepping in and making them safe, we are in no position to demand someone be "nonviolent." It will be up to that person to find out what they feel is necessary to feel safe. If someone is being attacked, they have a right to defend themselves. It is a failure on our end if we are not prepared to protect our fellow occupiers, and in such a position of failure, we haven't the right to issue demands to everyone on how to behave if they are being attacked. If I hear about an occupier being attacked and instead of occupiers stepping in to defend them, they stand aside and demand the occupier be nonviolent, I will absolutely leave this movement, and do everything I can to make sure people know about the lack of solidarity and safety in the occupation.
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dylan
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Post by dylan on Oct 23, 2011 10:54:33 GMT -5
From my understanding of non-violence standing by and watching someone be beaten up is the exact opposite of non-violence; it is cowardice. The whole point of non-violence is to enter into violent situations and figure how to end them without attacking the aggressor.
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Post by Mike B on Oct 23, 2011 11:40:02 GMT -5
and what dylan describes happens to be basically what happened last night - this happened in a crowd and several from the crowd restrained and then removed the man. This did involve use of physical force to but I won't debate whether any use of force qualifies as violence. The point is people put themselves in the way and removed the violent person, which was entirely appropriate as he was swinging. I also would not demand that the man who was hit remain non-violent as he was being attacked, whether or not the crowd did anything, although I think it was smart of him to do so.
The other big problem is whether the incident will be used as a pretense for eviction and what we can do to mitigate that possibility.
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benbrucato
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Post by benbrucato on Oct 23, 2011 12:31:49 GMT -5
Perhaps in addition to the Security WG (which needs to be explored, created and utilized), the Facilitator WG should consider getting involved in this situations to mitigate heated debates using conflict resolution techniques. They could deescalate tensions by slowing down the discussion, rephrasing statements to separate their rational from their emotional content so they can both be addressed ("So what I hear you saying is that your grandfather was a vet, and because of that, you believe _______, is that right? Let's discuss that. But first, I also detect that you are upset about something, could you explain why you are upset so we can better understand?").
The facilitators could attempt to deescalate and work through the problem with discussion, and the security people would be ready to restrain and separate people if it becomes physical.
If these procedures are in place and demonstrated, everyone will be much more cool-headed and respond with much more uniformity when and if something like this happens. What shouldn't happen is a crowd shaming someone for defending themselves. That's not cool. I'm glad to know that people intervened and separated people, rather than only shouting "nonviolence! nonviolence!" As dylan said: that's cowardice. It's also the opposite of solidarity.
Is anyone prepared to step up, deal with this in WGs and make reports back ASAP?
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hz
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Post by hz on Oct 23, 2011 13:14:29 GMT -5
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hz
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Post by hz on Oct 23, 2011 13:17:02 GMT -5
Here is also some verified clarification about the outcome of last nights event.
This was our official press release sent today:
ALBANY, NY – October 23, 2011 – Occupy Albany wishes to clarify the details of an incident that occurred at Academy Park in Albany last night.
A minor altercation occurred between an apparently intoxicated veteran and a protester holding a sign that read 'economic justice now.' The veteran forcefully removed the sign from the protesters hands.
State Police acted effectively to ensure that the incident remained minor. Occupy Albany thanks the officers involved for their skillful handling of the situation, and for their professionalism and courtesy. This minor disturbance was over in minutes. It ended with the protester declining to press charges, accepting the apology of the man who had taken the sign, and shaking his hand while wishing him the best of luck in his return to civilian life.
Occupy Albany remains committed to peaceful protest and to being good neighbors. We understand and accept that the discussion of important issues can lead to passionate debate. We welcome those discussions within the framework of respect and nonviolence.
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Post by Johnny Grammar on Oct 23, 2011 13:54:03 GMT -5
aside from the missing apostrophe on the possessive noun at the end of the second paragraph, very nice.
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anthony
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Post by anthony on Oct 23, 2011 21:41:35 GMT -5
There is one tactic that could work and has worked in other places. When there is a known aggressor he/she is isolated by the crowd moving 5' or more away from this person. Keeping this perimeter allows escape for the aggressor and safety for the people around. The female that did step in asked for that space and it was working, but the protester would not stop arguing with the man who was obviously intoxicated. This needs to be avoided. Situations like these are the ones APD are looking for in order to have an excuse for even police presence. So far there has not been much. Also the idea of keeping the sidewalk clear so people can passed happened just after that incident. That seems like a good start. The hard part is to try and keep the peace between protesters/non-protesters, and at the same time talk politics. I can try and diffuse violent confrontations whenever I feel they are escalating to that point, and I will have a camera as much as possible.
Anthony
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reubenshojin
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Post by reubenshojin on Oct 24, 2011 16:33:38 GMT -5
Having had a chance to look at the footage from multiple angles, I'd first and foremost like to commend everyone who was present both before and after the incident became violent. I clearly saw the veterans being spoken to by the Veterans for Peace, it appeared that there was an effort made to inform the aggressing veteran that he was being filmed, and it was clear that there was mediation being attempted. A difficult situation was prevented from causing more harm than it did with the direct action of the people involved with the violence. It was handled promply, and with an impressive amout of skill for something that arose spontaneously.
I'd like to share Nami's presented concern, that if the veteran who became agressive had a weapon, or gained access to a weapon, that the actions taken after he became violent would have been very bad for all involved, due in part to the blockage of the sidewalk, and the larger group surrounding those surrounding the protester, limiting their options. If I may offer some feedback, I feel the biggest problem was the vector of violent veteran, being allowed to be through the mass assembled. The response of those affected by the violence, after the violence erupted, could have been more effective at minimizing the possiblity for harm, because the entire group was at some point exposed to the violence. The proposal that Peace Facilitation asked for the consensus of the GA on yesterday was a direct request to keep this from being a problem, but also was set up to be open ended enough to allow for all safety steps necessary for those who are brought into interface with violence to use the assets at their disposal, whether they be conflict mediation skills, self defense skills, or mad crazy running away skills. It was intended to be a method of limiting people's exposure to unsafe situations, so some clarification on the wording is still needed. Perhaps the proposal should be for a dedicated block of time, during which other activities would not be scheduled, for training on more effective responses, and empowering more people to be effective. We'll work out the wording on this before we bring it back before the GA.
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Post by pinkoblues on Oct 25, 2011 16:37:06 GMT -5
I WAS THERE THAT NIGHT, I and others deescalated the threat and turn it into an opportunity for outreach and education. This is what we all have to do.Young, drunk, privileged and very narrow minded( THEY WERE PROUD CARD CARRYING MEMBERS OF GOLDMAN SACHS ), these men were very hard to talk to, but it had to be done. In the end, one ran away(literally), one wanted to come back and prove us wrong(which was encouraged) and the last wanted to come back and learn.The situation was pacified and steered toward education. People must be watchful and take actions to ensure the safety of the group. And they will. We do need to confront these issues, but very tactfully. I am uncomfortable about having arm-banded enforcers for obvious reasons, however, we do need people to watch out at all times. Mediation and defense training need to be done and having trained people in deescalation tactics around at all times is important. It is necessary for people to step up to protect others, but the beauty is that, like everything else here, people will step up to the challenge. It is also important that every individual be encouraged to particpate as the y are also the 99%. We should never be trying to exclude anyone, we need to promote understanding and participation as weel as protecting the safety of the group. PS WE NEED REPRESENTATIVES FROM THIS WORKING GROUP TO BE ACCESSIBLE IN THE PARK AT ALL TIMES
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laurelyoung
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Post by laurelyoung on Oct 26, 2011 18:40:40 GMT -5
I think some coordination with Mental health professionals who are volunteering is key. I am as many are trained in de-escalation, crisis intervention and mediation skills. I am in this working group so I will talk to them at our next meeting about this issue
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Post by arikard on Nov 15, 2011 12:27:40 GMT -5
I am interesting in helping out with this WG. I am somewhat unclear on whether some sort of arrangements have been made with respect to safety observers at night, perhaps with video cameras. I would be happy to take a few shifts. My name is Andrew and can be reached at (518) 438-8046, (518) 522-8415, or arikard@plsny.org.
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bw
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Post by bw on Nov 15, 2011 23:46:37 GMT -5
This is an old post. There is a Peoples Safety WG
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